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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Mary Masako Suzuki Aoki 
1979 
Cassette 2, Side 1 
 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:01 
Okay, I was here talking to you last week, and you talked about your father, and I was curious 
about some of the things that you shared with your mother, that you feel, that you-- you maybe 
not learned, but gained from your mother, and things like that. You had mentioned that she was 
from a very tradition-bound background, and I was wondering how that showed itself when you 
were growing up, if you felt that in certain ways. 
 
Mary Aoki  00:25 
Well, yes, because we should never do things that would disgrace the family. It's very important. 
However, in Japanese literature or even in everyday life, this thing about, well, if you're not a 
good daughter or a son, we will disown you. But my mother told me that she would never 
disown us, regardless of-- if we did commit a very serious crime, so that if anybody should come 
to us, to come to me. Because she said, Whether good or bad, you are mine, and that I will 
always love you. And I [?was always own you?], and I was watching Ted Bundy's mother on TV 
today, and it-- Oh, Anne, you better write him a check. And some of the-- well, this is more 
about how she tried to cope with prejudice when I first started school here, you know. She-- it 
almost sounds corny, except when I think back on if I-- no, I as a mother, how would I have told 
my child, you know. She said, You like oranges or apples betters? I said, you know, I like them 
both. I like them both equally as well, you know. Says, Well, she said, If you go to school today, 
says There may be more apples and just maybe a handful of oranges, or maybe you may be the 
only orange in the class. But remember, you're both just as nice, you're just as good, you know, 
and everyone will like you just as much. You're just a little different, but then, you know, but 
you're both fruit. She went on, you know. And see, I was five, you know. And for her to try so 
hard by, you know, she telling me that-- how special I was, you know. And, oh, God. [Inaudible] 
about my mother. And also, I was very touchy, because, in spite of just not to disgrace your 
family, et cetera, this business of-- that you would never, ever disown this, you know, and so I 
thought that was very touching. And she also told me that she often wondered if she really knew 
what true maternal love-- she thought was a natural, almost an instinctive love. It was nothing, 
something that was cultivated in that sense, because she was brought up by a stepmother, you 
know? And she wondered what it would have been like if she really had a real mother, but she 
felt that her stepmother really brought her up the best she could and instilled, you know, what 
they call [?prosino?], proper morals, et cetera. And so she wondered-- but she thought that being 
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a mother, a maternal, she said it was almost instinctive. She said I could sleep through fire 
engines, but I will be awakened when my child cries.  
 
Jill G. Smith  01:00 
And was she very worldly? Had she-- because of her traveling Japan to Seattle?  
 
Mary Aoki  03:51 
No, I don't think, no, I don't think she was very worldly. Except she was brought, brought up in a 
very true Buddhist tradition, and so she never did eat very much meat. She tended to be more-- 
ate more vegetables and things, eggs and poultry. You know, then she did red meat, and she said 
that it was her upbringing, again, about-- and she said she remembers when people kind of 
mocked her father for eating so much beef, you know. And so, she said she always sort of felt 
like it's not a disgrace, but she sort of always felt a little bit squeamish about that. To this day, 
she maintains that not eating too much meat [?excels?] her, but my dad does like red meat. But 
what else can I tell you about my mother? 
 
Jill G. Smith  04:51 
Did they follow certain rituals in the family? Were there certain holidays or ceremonies? 
 
Mary Aoki  04:55 
Yes, Girls' Day and Boys' Day. And religion in our family was-- it's more like ancestor worship 
or, or upholding the ancestors, you know your background, that kind of heritage more than it is, 
let's say the true teachings of Buddha. Of course, they know more or less. But I think in Japan, 
all of this sort of all becomes one. And so my what you call social inheritance, you know, to be 
born a Buddhist, you know, because that's what my family is. But it wasn't something where we 
had to recite parts of the sutra or anything like that. It was something that was in your heart. My 
mother, actually, is sort of jumping from one thing to another, but is looking forward to see if, 
maybe in her lifetime, one of her grandchildren become doctors, because her great-grandfather 
was a very famous physician in her area. And then after the great-grandfather, it was the 
daughters, none of the direct descendants became a physician. So she feels it's about time. And 
my mother's family comes-- she comes from a samurai family. Sounds sort of ostentatious, but 
compared to my dad's, my dad's family, their main-- his ancestors were calligraphers. Like for 
instance, when I was in Japan at my uncle's house, I was very impressed, because they had reams 
of paper where the Shogun of the Tokugawa era, when they were youngsters, practiced 
calligraphy, because they had been calligraphy masters, teaching these people, you know, first in 
Okazaki, and then they went up to Edo, you know, Tokyo. And so they said that there should 
always be one person who is a good calligraphy-- calligrapher in the family, which, of course, I 
think my dad was one. He wrote very well.  
 
Jill G. Smith  07:37 
So those two lines coming together, and your parents and the-- 
 
Mary Aoki  07:40 
-- calligrapher, yeah. 
 
Jill G. Smith  07:42 
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And the samurai. 
 
Mary Aoki  07:43 
Yeah, and so, I think my mother's family was little more-- well in Japan, I think they're all ritual 
oriented in the sense that, like Obon, which is a very-- in the summertime, they have all these 
festivals which everyone observes. And, I don't know, it seems like the family wealth is judged 
by how many people the family can serve, you know, like how many hundreds of sets of, you 
know, lacquered trays and all these things that they had, you know, all that family can 
accommodate so many people. You know, it seemed like, well, was, that's the way it sounded to 
me when I was a child back then. Oh, that family can accommodate so many people when they 
have a get-together, you know, and that's sort of denoted wealth to me, or stature, or what is the 
status in the community? Maybe. 
 
Jill G. Smith  08:47 
Would your family get together with other Japanese families here in Seattle then, for any of 
those celebrations? 
 
Mary Aoki  08:55 
Yes and no, my mother, our family gets together with friends, intermingle. But primarily, I think, 
like Thanksgiving, we rotate within three sisters and, well, one person has it at their house. Then, 
of course, it's all potluck. One person brings desserts, one person brings salads. And then the-- 
like, it's going to be at my house this year, and it will be-- I'll do the turkey and all the trimmings 
and vegetables, and them. So, they try out all kinds of interesting things. And that's a-- my 
mother always talks about how she feels a very-- in an American setting, she feels insecure in the 
sense that she doesn't have any sterling to give to her offspring, You know, like she had 
inherited, because silver's not a tradition, just like mother goose was not a tradition in my family. 
So when I was married, the first thing my mother did was to get me Reed and Barton's Georgian 
Rose. You know, this beautiful-- and, do you know, at that time, that was the first time Jensen 
put out their beautiful stainless steel flatware. And I thought, Oh, I was so impressed that I turned 
in my silver and my mother wept, she was just-- to buy a lot, you know, and I think it really hurt 
her feelings. So my two younger sisters were smart enough, they didn't do it. And I kind of really 
wish that I had beautiful sterling now. But, but she'd still-- I think it must be in her heart, 
because, like, if she'd go up to Victoria, she, you know, maybe go down Fort Street and, like, if 
she'd pick up a sterling silver shoe horn, something that's kind of pretty. Yeah, so. But my 
mother had great difficulty naturally adjusting. And contrary to-- well, what people normally, 
you know, think of the Japanese woman that they are-- they walk seven steps behind the 
husband, et cetera. But I think this is all sort of show, or it's a kind of deference, difference that 
they-- a deference to the husband. They defer to the husband in public or in places like that. But 
in the household, I think it's the mother that controls a lot. You know, she controls the purse and 
[inaudible] strings. For instance, she's the one that-- and lot-- many major decisions the mother 
makes it, although the father thinks he does. I think it's very true. I think that's true and, because 
it's just something that comes on quite naturally, simply, because she's the one that's home, and 
she's the one that cares for the kids, and she's the one that has to make many decisions, and she 
will, of course, discuss it with her husband. But I really think that it's a myth that if they think the 
Japanese wife is just there to hand her husband slippers, et cetera. Well, she may do that to make 
him feel good so she can get away with whatever she wants, something like that. But I think 
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there was a-- my mother, I thought, was able to, in her own way, was able to manipulate my 
father, I think. Manipulate sounds like a terrible word, but it was a conscious effort, I think, to 
get around certain things. And when she came over here and he was-- sometimes he would be 
upset with things that she had bought or something. She was so angry that she went out and she 
bought silk bloomers, she told me, because she said she knew that he wouldn't pay [inaudible] 
back, and she said, Silk bloomers cost a lot, Mary, she told me. But she said, I guess I'm sort of a 
spiteful person, but I was so angry, and rather than to go and buy a hat I can do here, since you 
went and bought bloomers because you wouldn't behave [laughs], so she's done things like that 
to my dad. But, yes, that's very [?lively?]. But-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  13:24 
-- When you went back to Japan, your contact with your mother was pretty much broken. And 
did your grandmother take her place, or were you independent of her?  
 
Mary Aoki  13:35 
No, I think that I was very independent. My grandmother wanted me to take tea ceremony 
lessons. And maybe I told you all this before, but I just was [?gemini?] and very flighty. I finally 
had my own way. Never had time for those things, and for that matter, I think my mother didn't 
much care for-- she never said that I should take this and do that either. She felt that the flowers 
arranged-- except, she's taken many lessons. In a sense, I think that she never got along with her 
sister-in-law, who was a master at this, you know, and like, when the Emperor's brother would 
come to Osaka, or some place, it was her students that would serve tea, and it was her students 
flowers that were displayed in the reception hall and stuff. And I don't think it was all that. I just 
felt-- she felt that I probably had enough to do in school, trying to keep up with-- trying to keep 
up and because, I mean, there was a lot that I had to learn. I was handicapped in many ways. But 
then, of course, I mean, a handicap in one way-- well in other ways I mean, I knew other things 
to expose over here, [inaudible]. 
 
Jill G. Smith  15:11 
For example. Can you think of an instance? 
 
Mary Aoki  15:16 
Let's-- Well, I guess I'm in America. I guess I could call it my home and to many, I mean, 
America was like a Never-Neverland. When I went to school in Japan back in 1936, I had to go 
into the sixth grade in order-- remember I was telling you, in order to take the exam for high 
school. There was one girl in my class who was one of the top students, super bright, and yet, 
when we went on our graduation-- we have little trips. Japan is a small country, and I think 
maybe this is why they can accommodate these trips. But every graduating class gets to go 
somewhere, like we went to the famous Ise Shrine now, where one of the-- well, it's just a place 
of ancestral worship for the Emperor, and it's a national shrine. Absolutely breathtakingly 
beautiful. And when we got to the station, we were going to get on the train, she took off her 
getas to walk onto the train.  
 
Mary Aoki  16:40 
Yeah, because she thought that that's what you were supposed to do. Because when you-- you 
don't get into a home or somewhere, you always took your shoes off. And then the teacher said, 
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[inaudible], you don't have to take off and remove your shoes just, you know, just come back on 
and go on the train. She said, Oh, and she went on, you know, but I was stunned to think that it 
was her first train ride, yeah. And things like that were-- and those days, it was a privilege to go 
to high school too, because it was, even in the government schools, you had to pay tuition, and 
most of the kids would go to sixth grade, and then they'd-- compulsory education was eight 
years. So after-- now, it has changed, naturally. But in those days, back in 1936, it was still eight 
years, and they would go two more years of school, and then they would take sewing, et cetera, 
and then they would help in the farm with family or someone else. And I promised you I was 
going to get your pictures out, and I forgot completely, but I'll take it over to work. 
 
Jill G. Smith  17:11 
Those are the shoe. 
 
Jill G. Smith  17:48 
Okay, that would be good. I asked you if you could tell me some about your friendships with 
your girl friends and other boys at that time. Yes, and just-- you mentioned that you learned 
about the female anatomy and everything.  
 
Mary Aoki  18:03 
Oh, at school. It was very natural for children back-- girls back there, like every quarter, we had 
an, you know, we'd have a health exam where the school doctor would come, and the nurses 
would come, and they would inoculate you and do all the things. And they would, you know, 
weigh you, would, you know, all this type of thing, okay, a very kind of a superficial health 
exam. And all the girls, it was very natural for them to take off their shirts, and, you know, be, 
you know, topless, but I was extremely shy. And I think that's-- I don't know if that's an 
American upbringing, because also in Japan, they have ofuro, or they have public baths, or 
people really are-- quite naturally can expose themselves. In the family, no one thinks anything 
other, okay? But I couldn't, and I would not take off my shirt until I got where I had to consent. 
And they thought that I was being very secretive or something, you know. And they tell, Well, 
we're all made alike. It's really-- and I often wondered about that, because, well, they tell me a lot 
of kids here, it doesn't bother them. But I really, I don't think I would ever parade naked in front 
of my kids. I don't know whether that's a Japanese or an American phenomenon. Because on the 
farms in Japan in the summertime, quite often women, especially older women, walk around 
topless. And I was stunned. I asked my grandmother if I was in Africa and not in Japan, and she 
says, Oh, yes, it's not the nicest thing to do but it's hot, you know how it is or something. 
[Inaudible.] 
 
Jill G. Smith  20:14 
You were telling me I was-- or, I was asking you then about, after the doctor had come and told 
you that-- 
 
Mary Aoki  20:19 
--Oh, he also was the first experience I had with rhythm. I thought that was-- I later learned that 
this is a Catholic [inaudible], but I was already-- they taught us about ovulation. It was a rhythm 
to it, and most naturally, this is the way it went. And the doctor's thing, all these things 
diagrammed on the blackboard. 
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Jill G. Smith  20:41 
So you're 16 or 17?  
 
Mary Aoki  20:43 
Yeah, see 16, 17. 
 
Jill G. Smith  20:47 
And was, was this presented as a health lesson? Or specifically birth control? 
 
Mary Aoki  20:53 
I don't think it was-- we never even thought of birth control. We naturally knew that if women 
got married and well then, they were bound to have children. But it never, ever entered my mind. 
I don't think it ever entered anyone else's mind. If you might have an affair or a sleep and have a 
child, it just never, I don't think it ever entered my mind. Weird when you think about how free 
things are now, it really is. About the only contact we had with like male students were on this 
electric train, remember? Or when we were getting off, sometimes a boy would bump into you, 
or something like that. You know, that was about the only thrill they got, I think. 
 
Jill G. Smith  21:48 
Well, from that seemingly naive set-up in Japan, and when you got back to the states, how old 
were you? 
 
Mary Aoki  21:57 
I was-- see, how old was I? In 1947, so I was-- '25, '35, '45. I was 22. 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:07 
And what sort of re-entry process did you have to go through? Emotionally and physically? 
 
Mary Aoki  22:15 
We had to overcome this act of presumption, as I told you, we worked for the army and did the 
edited work that the translators did, and then we would-- we were often asked to do interpreting 
jobs or also do little personal favors, like buy corsages for their girlfriend, a Colonel's girlfriend 
or something like that. But when I came back, see the thing was, I'd read so much in literature. I 
knew, heard about homosexuality, all that, but it meant nothing in reality. You know what I 
mean? Yeah, I've heard about priests and you know all this, I've read in literature. It was very 
vivid, but I never thought of that in real terms. And I think it's, it's really much, much later in life, 
even after I was married, that I even knew what homosexuality was all about. And to this day I 
read-- I stumble on words, like I was in Hawaii and there was this marvelous massage machine. 
And so, I told the lady that I wanted to buy that [?sign girl?], vibrator. And the lady looked at 
me. And I said, you know, the machine that vibrates you, and she said, Oh, a massager, electric 
massager. And then Julie heard that and says, Mom, don't you-- haven't you heard of a vibrator? 
I said, No. And I really don't know these things. I'm very dumb and naive about many things like 
that, which is, don't like to admit it. Jan gave me a book wrapped in brown paper about sex, but it 
was terribly boring. It was some-- something hooker or something. It was a very lurid, very 
boring book like that, you know. And so what's there to learn about sex? Yeah, but there are lots 
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of terms and terminologies that, I think, those things you learn from your peers, et cetera, which I 
never had a chance to. And when I was back there, I was-- I guess my preparation for coming 
back here was to be able to be with it. So I'd assumed I could-- I could identify Glenn Miller or 
Andre Kostelanetz. So I thought these things very important. I came back and no one could give 
a hoot. You knew or didn't know, you know. So I felt, My goodness, all those. But to this day, I 
can identify many of them simply because I really listened to them trying to be a part of this 
thing. And they tried to teach me how to dance in Japan, and and I think something like that 
should come very naturally to when you have to take a lesson or something. Just didn't. 
[Inaudible] this guy-- this army man was trying to teach me cha-cha-cha, cha-cha-cha, cha-cha 
[laughs]. He told me he's got to get in the mood. So I said, Well, I guess I'm not in the mood to 
learn yet, you know? So I guess I-- as a mother with kids going to school, since I don't-- didn't 
have the high school experience here and the college experience, there are many things that I 
have difficulty relating to, like, which subjects shall I take? To me, you know, for someone who 
was forced to take everything, it seems very strange that one makes selections. These are the 
other choices. And I don't know there, there are many things that I feel like, probably, my kids 
miss-- of course, they have their dad, so that helps somewhat. But I really think it's the mother, 
it's the one that really helps the kids out on things like this. And we sit down and talk about. I can 
talk about things, except there are certain things that one does in growing up, which I've missed. 
 
Jill G. Smith  26:37 
In this culture, at least.  
 
Mary Aoki  26:39 
Yeah, and quite often, because proms or all these things, I know the words, but I really don't 
know what really takes place, and what one, you know, when and what a parent is supposed to 
buy a corsage for their daughter, or whatever, this type of thing. These are some of the things 
that I don't know. And I wished-- I feel like, you know, lots of times I'd let things go by without 
realizing it. Do you know what I mean? Unless, you know, someone-- one of the kids asked me 
about something. So. 
 
Jill G. Smith  27:22 
What was your family reunion like when you got home? 
 
Mary Aoki  27:26 
Oh, my-- the first thing was, my dad apologized to me, that he was-- he really bowed his head 
and he was in tears and apologizing to me, saying that he never, ever would subject us to this had 
he known that there would be a war. But he said that never, ever in his judgment, did he dream 
that there would be a war. And so he said that he was very sorry. So I told them that I wouldn't 
give up that experience for anything. I said it was terrible, but when people, you know, people do 
mean things, but also they do very noble things, when they're in a situation. There's a lot of 
helping each other out, and you learn a lot about compassion, and you become super strong and 
independent, and you try ways to solve problems. And so I learned so much from that experience 
that I told him that I wouldn't have missed it for anything. And also that experience, I think, I 
guess one has to have wars. I guess things never can really, maybe it's the way-- it's maybe like a 
natural selection in animals, or maybe in people, like maybe blacks try to choose someone that's 
a little bit lighter, just sort of instinctively, maybe, because it's more acceptable in society. And 
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it's a kind of natural selection. But I think, and maybe war is one of these tools that's needed, I 
don't know, to eliminate certain populations. I really don't know what it's all about. But people 
are basically so tough. I think the part that becomes demoralizing is in whatever, like in war, 
whatever they're doing, they don't have that goal. If they really believe that-- if Japan really 
believed, like they did in the beginning that Asia was for the Asiatics, and that we must learn to 
govern ourselves, and that one day, we'll be free of all this colonialism in Asia, and that we will 
be independent. We won't have to bow to the west for everything. All this tenure, is the kinds of 
feelings that permeated during day one, the war in Japan. And, not to be a communion, but it was 
a paradox. You know, your feelings because it's your fatherland, but still, America is your 
motherland, and I think the love for your motherland is instinctive. It's like a maternal kind of 
thing. You're part of that Earth or wishing to see Mount Rainier. All these things, non-
intellectual things. But I think that the fatherland thing is a little more intellectual. You know, I 
think that your feelings of how you love Japan, I don't think comes as-- well, you love it, but it's 
not as instinctive and powerful, overwhelming as it is, you know, for America as it is to me for 
[inaudible] to be my motherland. And I told you about when you-- [telephone rings]. So like, 
now, she has accounts all over, and I have one of her accounts, okay? And so she says, Well, 
would you go and get $3,000 for me? I think I'll just take a little bit extra. So she-- so all the kids, 
you know, everyone has her accounts. I told her that I have hers in sort of a long term deposit, so 
I just can't go like, Come on, just take it right out. So I told her, that's what I found. She was so 
funny, because after my dad died, he had all these stocks and things, and she didn't want to look 
at it, any of it. She says, Just let anybody take care of her [inaudible] as long as she had enough 
money to live on, it didn't matter. And certain things where her upbringing shows up is if she 
goes to store, and if she wants a percentage [inaudible], she doesn't ask how much it costs. So it's 
fine. And she's telling me now that that philosophy is much better now, because everything is so 
expensive that if you ask each time you know, wonder how much things are going to cost and 
[?striking?] that. So just go and buy what you want. They'll keep you healthy and happy. So I'll 
ask her, I'm like, Goodness, I said, How can you afford to eat three by three mangoes? She said, 
Are they expensive? Yes, I said. And she said, Oh, well, I like them. So, yeah, funny, but 
shenever seems to she seems to-- she lives on a fixed income, but she does okay. It's probably 
because meat is more expensive than anything else. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:01 
[Inaudible.] 
 
Mary Aoki  33:02 
But anyway, yeah, I feel like I don't know if I've been a very good subject for you, you know. 
But what else can I tell you?  
 
Jill G. Smith  33:12 
I still have more questions.  
 
Mary Aoki  33:13 
Yeah, okay. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:14 
You got back here at the age of 22. And how old were you when you got married? 
Page 9 of 12 
 
 
Mary Aoki  33:19 
See, I was married in '55 so I was 30.  
 
Jill G. Smith  33:23 
So that was a big gap, or, how did you meet Yosh?  
 
Mary Aoki  33:27 
Oh well, Yosh, I met in-- let's see. It was 1947 and we used to go to a cleaners on East Pike 
Street. And Yosh's mother had this little cleaning store, okay, cleaners, because we take our 
cleaning there. And her one older son was going to college. This Mrs. Aoki is a very good 
seamstress. And so she was helping out this old friend who came from the same prefecture as she 
did. In the [?themes?] so it wasn't her store, was this man's shop, and he had been ill, and so they 
felt that pockets should be repaired and that things, you know, take measurements on clothing 
before they're clean, sewing on buttons, reinforcing buttons, things like that. So she was helping 
him out, and Tak was living with her. That's Yosh's older brother, who's married to my sister 
and-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:38 
Well, how did that happen? 
 
Mary Aoki  33:50 
Because we would take cleaning there, and then she would invite us in because we were from 
Japan, and she would ask us questions. And she is a school teacher. She taught school for many 
years before she came here, and then she taught school here too. She taught the Japanese 
language over here, and we were telling her that we were going to Edison-- I mean, to Broadway 
High School to take some courses in US history. And then So Ruth met Tak, and he asked her 
out, and they were going out together. And then Yosh had come back from Ames on a vacation. 
And his mother invited us, all, you know, to have dessert or something.  
 
Jill G. Smith  35:23 
Going to school? 
 
Mary Aoki  35:27 
Ames, Iowa, I mean, state college, state university. Okay. Because of the relocation, he couldn't 
come out to school on West Coast, so he'd gone to the school in Iowa, but the aeronautical 
engineering department here was quite strong, and so he transferred out here, and so that's when 
I met him. And so, he's the only person I've actually dated or just gone out with. And we would 
serve-- almost like brother and sister. We just went everywhere together and had a good time. 
And I-- after I came here in '47, I decided I'd take some classes at the university. And I took an 
anthropology class, physical anthropology, because anthropology was one of the subjects that 
was suppressed in Japan during the war, and so it had great intrigue for me. The Japanese were 
not about to admit that there was maybe 3% Black blood that could have been, you know, like 
super kinky hair that would appear, et cetera. And there are certain words in the Japanese 
vernacular, everyday spoken language that is supposed to have a kind-- it came around from 
Egypt all the way down. Well, anyway, there's been those two certain words. I'd forgotten some 
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of those words. But anyway, this very famous anthropologist was jailed during the war for his 
beliefs, like the emperor was super sacred, you know, like a god-like thing and and this type of 
thing. And he talked about inbreeding resulted in sort of mental deterioration of-- or maybe he 
wasn't all there to begin, with the Emperor Taishō, and so he was promptly jailed. So 
anthropology was always a very intriguing subject for me. So first course I took was physical 
anthropology, and at that time, they were looking for a Japanese cataloger, someone to work in 
the Far Eastern Library. And so I went and talked to the creator, who was the curator, she called 
herself, in the Far Eastern Library. And so I was hired right away, so then I worked for the Far 
Eastern Library for almost eight years. Had lots of fun, learned lots of things, and met many 
interesting students. And those days on the campus, when I left the university in 1957, there was 
about 16,500 students who were absolutely horrified at the number of [inaudible]. And so you 
could see that it was a much smaller setting. And in the Far Eastern library, we even sort of had a 
bibliography course on reference materials that I would help students out, which would eliminate 
several steps. They're working with oriental books, they're not familiar with all the reference 
books that one can use. And so it sort of developed into a little course-like thing. And so I was 
always teased that I helped them with their dissertations, just taught them how to eat and cook 
Japanese. And so we were-- I was-- we were sort of the all around good guys. You know, in the 
library. It was a very friendly relationship with many of the students, and most of them are 
professors now, or whatever, but we had a very interesting group of people. And like I said, we 
could go to all those concerts or [?ages of men?] or just everything was so accessible. And so, 
when I was finally married in 1955, I said I wanted a house because the Metropolitan was torn 
down. Helen Hayes kissed the floor with the final showing of-- I thought-- what was it now? 
Well, anyway, I remember the play, but I can't think of the title. It's an English play. And 
anyway, she said that she was-- Katharine Cornell's husband was at Minneapolis. I forget his 
name. 
 
Jill G. Smith  35:32 
The professor? 
 
Mary Aoki  39:54 
Yeah. Okay, so he was-- had something to do with Seattle. He was born here, or something. So 
she said that for Mr. Guthrie, [inaudible] kiss the Met farewell is a very dramatic moment. And 
then everything moved over to the old-- to the old Moore Theater. So I told Yosh, we have to 
live strategically between Meany and the Moore. We don't want to go very far. We don't have to 
cross bridges or anything, you know, but we go to everything. Those days, all the New York City 
Ballet would come and, you know, save our money, and would go night after night, and used to 
have so much fun. Used to go to everything,  and-- but after your children come, it's not as easy 
to get out. But we used to-- I guess we were young, because-- that was a funny thing, come to 
think of it. Speaking of being young, when I was at the University in 1947, '48, one of the friends 
gave a party, and I was out till 2 a.m. and I had never, ever in my life, ever stayed out that late, 
you know, and it just seemed, by some kind of standards in the back of my mind in Japan, it was 
unheard of for any young woman to come home at 2 a.m. I was very wicked. But after that, we 
stayed up almost all night. We'd go for breakfast at places, and we used to have parties, and we 
used to have lots of fun, lots of exchanges, discussions, et cetera. And those were the good old 
days. But I remember when we saw the Firebird dance, what's the English act-- the ballerina that 
danced the Firebird. 
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Jill G. Smith  40:00 
Margot Fonteyn? 
 
Mary Aoki  40:36 
Yeah, Margo Fonteyn danced the firebird. And that was super exciting. That been many, many 
years since then. Oh, the last time I guess I saw her was when she danced Romeo and Juliet. 
They danced here, but that was after the World's Fair, because it was built. But anyway, it was-- 
it was a very exciting life for me. And I felt like, since all during the war years, we had our little 
concert. You know, listening to records, get together with groups of people, but it was an 
exciting new world. It seemed like I had, you know, my-- all the things that I missed, going out 
with friends and things that we weren't able to do. It seemed like I was just doing it over and over 
again.  
 
Jill G. Smith  42:49 
Was 30 considered old to be getting getting married then, or? 
 
Mary Aoki  42:52 
I think my parents thought that, you know, maybe-- because both my sisters were married, but 
my mother knew that-- she said, Mary will never get married until she decides to do it. You 
know, I don't think they really particularly care very much. But my mother wanted us to get 
married in the Buddhist church, and Yosh didn't want to get married in church, so they said, 
Well, if you're not going to get married in church, well, I said, It's best to get married elsewhere. 
So we went to San Francisco. Loved San Francisco. We used to go every year in September-- I 
mean, in October, because during the opera season [inaudible]. Yeah, we've had great times 
listening to Schwarzkopf singing in the Marriage of Figaro, but-- oh, we used to do very wild 
things, like-- unheard of with my kind of upbringing. Because one time, over a Thanksgiving 
weekend, were wanting to go to San Francisco, and I didn't have enough money, so I sold my 
refrigerator for $100. And then I came back and my mother said, Well, you must have known 
that I had this extra one. So I said, No, I wasn't counting on that, but it was just by impulse that I 
did it, and she laughed, and she gave me her refrigerator, so I was really quite surprised.  
 
Jill G. Smith  44:28 
Did you keep working then-- there after you got married, did you keep working?  
 
Mary Aoki  44:36 
No, no, the only work I did was when I was working the Far Eastern Library, the State 
Department came and asked the university if they would produce the interpreter for the North 
Pacific Fisheries Commission, and it was high protocols, the first get-together they were having. 
Canada, Japan, and the United States, they came to Vancouver, and so they-- Harry Bauer came 
and asked me, he was head of library then, libraries then, and I told him, I don't know anything 
about fish. I said, There's no way that I want to, Bob. He said, They want someone that's 
completely neutral, someone that doesn't know much about fish, so you would be ideal. And I 
said, No, I really didn't like-- I said, I get very nervous in front of people, and I hate-- I really 
don't enjoy interpreting unless I'm just doing it for friends or for fun. But when it comes to 
things, I. 
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